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Basically there are four elements that I have to receive information regarding marks the worst us terrorist attack in history the bombing of the Alfred P Murrah Building in downtown Oklahoma City the explosion shook central oklahoma killed nearly a hundred and seventy people and injured more than four hundred others someone had detonated a Ryder truck filled with explosives outside the building the only suspect actually charged in the bombing so far as Timothy McVeigh Timothy McVeigh Timothy McVeigh McVeigh matimak vague Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma City bomber the face of American terrorism the face of evil on the morning of April 19 1995 the Alfred P murrah building was torn apart by explosions killing 168 office workers passers-by children in the building's daycare center horrified a nation in grief turned to the authorities for answers now 20 years after that tragic day we all know the story the public was told less than a week away now from the 20th anniversary the Oklahoma City bombing it's still the largest act of domestic terrorism our country has ever seen and approximately 840 in the morning on April 19 1995 a slow-moving Ryder truck was seen near the Alfred P murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City a Ryder truck loaded with a diesel fuel and fertilizer bomb blew up next to the Alfred P murrah Federal Building cutting it in half a hundred and sixty eight people including 19 children in its daycare center died there you can see as the building was just simply cut away by this huge explosion collapsed into a shifting house of cards pulling at the rubble they sometimes wonder whether they're tugging the piece that holds it all up the nationwide search for suspects in the Oklahoma City bombing the government has claimed McVeigh was alone terry nichols was later also arrested and convicted as an accomplice the plot was said to be an attempt to avenge the deaths of about 80 people in the government siege at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco Texas exactly two years earlier in that story quickly centered on one man Timothy James McVey was born April 23rd 1968 in Pendleton New York him in his neighborhood got to be pretty well known for being kind of an attention getter and outgoing type kid for Timothy McVeigh guns would become a lifelong passion McVeigh his decision to join the Army in 1988 comes after high school and a series of dead-end jobs with his love of guns this is a natural fit for him he and his unit parts of the 1st Infantry Division the big red one were sent to the Gulf and were in place ready for war by January 1991 when the war ended his unit was part of the security force assigned to guard general Norman Schwarzkopf in Saudi Arabia McVeigh says several key events caused him to in his words snap beginning in 1992 when federal agents killed the wife and young child of white supremacist Randy Weaver during a standoff at Ruby Ridge Idaho a call for an imminent war with the government spreads to cell groups across the far right Timothy McVeigh also becomes convinced by this time shortly thereafter he writes Michael and Laurie Fortier telling them that he wanted to take action against the government he then enlists the help of his old army buddy Terry Nichols the Regency towers security cameras photograph mcveigh's Ryder truck passing by on his way to the Murrah Building one of the individuals believed to be responsible for wednesday's terrible attack on the murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City has been arrested a Highway Patrol officer pulled over Timothy McVeigh less than two hours after the bombing for a missing license plate in 1997 McVeigh was found guilty on 11 federal counts of murder and conspiracy he was sentenced to death and executed in 2001 timothy mcveigh we've been told so much about him what he did why he did it what it meant for America but how much of it is true for 20 years a handful of tireless researchers have been working to expose the lies surrounding the legend of Timothy McVeigh the lone wolf terrorist mastermind and what they have uncovered has been remarkable these researchers are not isolated cranks but US Air Force weapons experts Oklahoma state representatives FBI whistleblowers government informants attorneys eyewitnesses veteran journalists and many others whose direct experience contradicts the narrative of the OKC bombing that we have been told but perhaps the most compelling contradiction of the official story comes from McVeigh himself according to the official account McVeigh had set his sights early on in his military career on joining the Special Forces and it was the frustration of not achieving that goal that caused him to quit the forces suddenly and unexpectedly in 1991 during his stay at Fort Riley Kansas McVeigh had been selected to try out for the Special Forces the exclusive Green Berets his dream assignment in the military and had trained extensively for it doing hundreds of push-ups and hundreds of sit-ups every day carrying a hundred pounds of gear 1315 miles a day to get himself in the physical condition for the course the Gulf War changed that for him sergeant Timothy McVeigh was awarded the Bronze Star for valor and the combat infantry badge for his part in the fighting when the war ended his unit was part of the security force assigned to guard general Norman Schwarzkopf in Saudi Arabia suddenly he was told to return to the United States his long desired wish to try out for the Special Forces his revered Green Berets had finally become a reality he was getting everything ready he was happy he was excited he was moving you know cause he was going to the Special Forces one week later sergeant Timothy McVeigh was at Fort Bragg North Carolina undergoing the strenuous Special Forces tryout but he was not the soldier he had been before the war in the Gulf after living in the desert for four months he was physically drained particularly the desert conditions his equipment was wore out one of the tests was for him to carry a 45 pound sack with him on a long journey he was wearing new boots his ankles were aching his body and mind were physically out of shape his feet were blistered his ankle was sprained at that point McVeigh knew he could not pass the physically grueling Special Forces tests it was the most devastating thing that had ever happened to him and he sent a written notice to the camp supervisor a voluntary statement of withdrawal it reads I am NOT physically ready it was his first failure in the military and his buddies saw really an altered McVeigh when he returned from that experience he was somebody who had succeeded in everything the military before now he had failed and he seemed somewhat embittered and soured but in a letter to his sister in October 1993 published in The New York Times in 1998 McVeigh tells a very different story why would Tim characteristically non-drinker super successful in the Army private to sergeant in two years Top Gun Bronze Star accepted into Special Forces all of a sudden come home party hard and just like that announced he was not only disillusioned by the Special Forces but was in fact leaving the service he goes on to answer now here's what led to my current life it all revolves around my arrival at Fort Bragg for Special Forces we all took intelligence psychological adeptness and whole battery of other tests out of a group of 400 one day in formation 10 Social Security numbers were called out no names and told to leave formation mine was one the 10 of us were told that out of the select group of 400 we had scored highest on certain tests we had been selected because of our intelligence physical makeup and physical abilities we were to feel special part of a hand-picked group we were all asked to volunteer talk about peer pressure to do some work for the government on the domestic as well as international front would I learn next both from the briefings and from the questions and private talks included one we would be helping the CIA fly drugs into the u.s. to fund many covert operations and to military consultants were to work hand-in-hand with civilian police agencies to quiet anyone who was deemed a security risk we would be government paid assassins how did the New York Times address these startling claims in a feature-length article on the letter a single parenthetical remark the government has always denied such activities this is a remarkable claim to be sure but the question should not be whether or not this version of events has always been denied in an unattributed way by an unidentified representative of an unidentified government agency but whether or not there are facts to back up the claim so what evidence can we find in the public record that would shed light on the question of whether or not McVeigh was in fact still in the military at the time he wrote the letter and if such information exists how does it change the story of the Oklahoma City bombing firstly it makes sense to ask whether or not such a claim is even possible does the military engage such Task Forces of undercover operatives to carry out off-the-record missions the answer to that question is yes that answer comes from a number of sources including Colonel L Fletcher Prouty as a colonel in the US Air Force and chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff prowdy worked from 1955 to 1964 as the liaison procuring military supplies equipment and logistics support for CIA special operations worldwide in his 1973 tell-all the secret team proudly discussed the inner workings of America's intelligence community noting sheepdip it is an intricate army devised process by which a man who is in the service as a full career soldier or officer agrees to go through all the legal and official motions of resigning from the service then rather than actually being released his records are pulled from the army personnel files and transferred to a special Army Intelligence file substitute but nonetheless real appearing records are then processed and the man leaves the service he is encouraged to write to friends and give a cover reason why he got out he goes to his bank and charge card services and changes his status to civilian and does the hundreds of other official and personal things that any man would do if he really had gotten out of the service meanwhile his real army records are kept in secrecy but not forgotten this tactic was used for example in project heavy green during the US military participation in Vietnam in the 1960s restricted from deploying troops in layoffs by the 1962 geneva accords 48 Air Force personnel were instead sheep dipped and deployed in leo says civilian employees of lockheed to serve as a bombing radar installation there but was McVeigh sheep dipped by its very definition this process is designed to be hidden from public view under such an operation McVeigh's resignation paperwork even his personal life would all look exactly as it should if he had genuinely been discharged from the military even more frustratingly the sources of information that could potentially prove the McVeigh was in fact sheep dipped are being deliberately kept from the public take the testimony of Terry Nichols he is serving an unprecedented 161 consecutive life sentences for his part in the bombing at ADX Florence a supermax prison in Colorado where he shares a cellblock with Romsey Yousef and Ted Kaczynski in 2007 he provided a sworn deposition to attorney Jesse Trend ooh where he stated in December of 1992 Timothy McVeigh told me that while he was serving in the US Army he had been recruited to carry out undercover missions mcveigh again told the same story to one of his fellow inmates on death row David Paul hammer I think they told me and another inmate here that he was actually an agent working for a guy he called the major and he met this allegedly met this man when he reported to four special trainings duty and he was told to wash out in special training and has to accept what was called black ops operations and he would be working as an independent person as a part of it and that he would recruit people to be in his unit according to McVeigh this association went on for several years from the end of 1993 night night in 1992 and throughout the days of bombing of the Murrah Building on April 19th 1995 unsurprisingly perhaps the federal government has made it as difficult as possible for the general public to access this information or find out more about these claims after granting the interview discussing McVeigh's military connections hammer was placed on lockdown and even prevented from contacting his attorneys after receiving Nicholls sworn declaration that McVeigh was an undercover Army operative attorney Jessie Trinity was prevented from gaining access to depose nichols by a federal judge the judge in McVeigh zone case also placed sensitive documents obtained by the defense during discovery under seal documents that the producer of Oklahoma City bombing documentary a noble lie claims prove these connections so perhaps we can start with just laying out the parts of the record that we can all agree on about Timothy McVeigh in his background well he actually served in the US Army he was on the security detail for general Schwarzkopf he at the time the LED Supreme Commander of Allied forces and the first Persian Gulf War back in 1990 and he was a sharpshooter and sniper and he was complemented actually when he was in custody in the Denver County or the Denver federal courthouse awaiting trial army had to award him two medals of commendation for his stellar service as far as the Special Forces words still murky we weren't able to find any documentation to support the fact that he did work Special Forces but we do know that he was a unemployed employee by the CIA he was a drug smuggler and a professional assassin this was in the two-and-a-half years leading up to the the devastation of April 19 1995 we also know that he was on a joint task force with the ATF and the FBI tried to recruit people to help young blow up federal buildings in seven different cities around the United States what you have just said will be stunning to those who have only heard the mainstream narrative of McVeigh and so let's talk about the the pieces of evidence that document what you're talking about we were able to go through the Defense Council record Stephen Jones was very generous in giving us access to those records are stored at a particular institution on the campus of UT Austin and through the hard work of Wendy painting one of our key researchers oddly enough she was born and raised less than an hour from where McVeigh was raised in upstate New York but she had paid several visits to Austin and was able to access these records the curator of the institution was very kind to us as a comb crew and I had the honor of EXCI joining or about that two and a half three months he was down there off and on over the course of nine months I joined her for three days and saw which he was going through and the the records I mean this is what the defense counsel through discovery process was able to put together unfortunately the trial only lasted three and a half weeks so they weren't able to present a lot of this evidence and it was by the the efforts of Judge May she was the presiding judge he put a lot of these records under seal was never allowed to present to the defense or to the the jury or the prosecution prosecution wasn't even aware of the records so it was very stunted and very unfortunate set of events on that net short trial so what does this evidence amount to are these claims true until McVeigh's full defense records are unsealed or witnesses like Nichols and Hammer are deposed in their testimony investigated by a grand jury researchers will have to rely on evidence in the public record to corroborate these claims and arrive at a better understanding of the bombing and mcveigh's role in it we do know that in August of 1993 director bill bean recorded some footage of camp Grafton a National Guard training center that provided explosives and demolitions training while scouting locations for a film shoot while filming at Camp Grafton one and a half years after mcvade suppose a discharge from the Army beam had an encounter with a man he now firmly believes to have been McVeigh George AB was that what's your job oh poor squirt just you just Park in this one huh yeah basically hi my name is Bill beam I work in the film industry on August 3rd 1993 I was at Camp Grafton North Dakota Camp Grafton is a military training academy for the United States Army the Army Reserve and the National Guard the reason I was there was to scout locations for a film project I was working on I was given a tour of the base it's designated by Colonel Dahl we will by the motor pool and there were a large group of Tanks that were parked there I saw two soldiers parking an armored vehicle I asked the building director if I could go over and interview the soldiers so I walked over to the armored vehicle it had a porthole in the back I entered inside the soldier who had been driving the vehicle was closing a hatch in the front when he turned around he looked at me and he froze I had my video camera running and I said to him what's your job and he looked at me and he said what I said what's your job he says I'm nobody I'm just a parts Clerk on August 3rd 1993 is when I videotaped and interviewed Timothy McVeigh a year and a half after he was supposedly out of the military completely you so do jab was that what's your job Oh Park squirt just you just Park in this one huh yeah basically was McVeigh involved in explosives training at Camp Grafton after his supposed discharge camp Grafton denies that McVeigh was ever present on base but beyond the physical resemblance to McVeigh professor Michel Blomgren of the University of Utah conducted a voice analysis of the tape and found an 86% match between the person speaking on the tape and audio of McVeigh's interview on 60 minutes I ended up going to Professor Blomgren at the University of Utah who's in the speech pathology department he did a voice forensics test he did various computer and scientific tests on it and did human voice analysis tests also his final report to me was that he would testify in a court of law that this is Timothy McVeigh he had compared it to a 60 Minutes interview and found a near-perfect near exact match this footage is possible corroboration of McVeigh story but it is only that possible corroboration what else can we find on the public record that helps to back up this fantastic tale of McVeigh as a sheep dipped Special Forces operative let's start by examining Nichols declaration in it nichols fearing for the safety of his family notes i cannot possibly discuss in this declaration all the information i have concerning the oklahoma city bombing and others involved but crucial parts of this terrorist act remain hidden from the american people especially the identities of the others unknown who collaborated with McVeigh in the bombing Nichols goes on to reveal the name of one of these collaborators after noting McVeigh seemed upset and angry in learning about a change in targets for the bombing Nichols writes that in what I believe was an accidental slip of the tongue McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh in the bomb plot the name McVeigh let slip was Larry Potts lead FBI agent at ruby-red according to Nicholls McVeigh was furious with pots for changing the script on the bombing and presumably targeting the Murrah Building so who is Larry Potts Larry Potts was described as the bureau's fastest rising star in the early 1990s and as such was in the center of the bureau's two most controversial incidents of that time the Ruby Ridge shootout in which Vicki Weaver and her 14 year old son were killed by federal agents and the Waco standoff that ended with federal agents burning down the Branch Davidian compound killing 76 men women and children in May of 1995 directly after the Oklahoma City bombing he was promoted to Deputy Director of the FBI where he was chief operating officer in charge of hundreds of criminal investigations he was also the lead investigator on the bombing of the Murrah Building so do we have any evidence that the FBI participated in a cover-up of the OKC investigation the answer is such a resounding yes that even high-ranking FBI officials have alleged just such a cover-up we know there were 24 people that were interviewed by the FBI they said they saw mr. McVeigh on April 19th with someone else and they had no reason to to make it up they didn't have a dog in that fight they didn't have any reason to just to make something up they told the agents exactly what they saw and they just wrote it down if only one person is seen here two or three but 24 24 people say yes I saw him with somebody else that's pretty powerful that Danny Colson the man in charge of the FBI's collection of evidence from the Oklahoma City bombing is himself alleging a cover-up is significant as Coulson points out in the immediate wake of the bombing the largest manhunt in the history of the bureau was launched to find the two men who reported as having rented and driven the Ryder truck to its destination John Doe number one was soon identified as McVeigh but John Doe number two his accomplice remained at large who is John Doe number two and where is he employees at the truck rental business in Kansas also helped with a sketch of a man who they say was with McVeigh a square-jawed suspect with a tattoo on his left arm authorities made a second than a third sketch of John Doe two with a ballcap based on a description from an Oklahoma City man who says he gave McVeigh and John Doe two directions to Northwest 5th and Harvey the mara building 30 minutes before the bombing so he pulls up and what gets out of the truck now he pulls up and I go up to the truck I went to see what he needed he said he was kind of lost a little bit so he was looking for a fifth and Harvey was he words you gave me he didn't he did not distinct a building the Murray building or nothing like that he just asked me where a direction of 5th and Harvey was I kind of tried to explain it to him through verbally and it he could seem a little confused by the way I was explaining it to him so at that time he got out of the truck and I kind of walked him about three or four feet from where we were standing and pointed it out to him the direction where it was all these accounts share a comment and unsettling similarity the witnesses say they saw several accomplices including the infamous John Doe number two ATF officials tell us the elusive John Doe is still part of this case but will not comment any further however they did tell us that there's a lot about this case we don't know yet information you can't find in the indictments against Timothy McVeigh terry nichols and michael 48 the first man is a medium build with a light brown crew cut and he is right-handed McVeigh's identified as the mystery man John Doe one and arrested the second man is also medium build he's further described as 5 feet 9 inches to 5 feet 10 inches tall with brown hair and a tattoo visible on his left arm what happens next is a conspiracists dream John Doe number two remains at large he should be considered armed and extremely dangerous but two months later the FBI calls off the search the official line is John Doe 2 doesn't exist why was the manhunt called off why were 24 separate eyewitnesses along the Ryder trucks route that morning dismissed as having imagined his existence is it because even more damning evidence of John Doe number two's existence and more importantly his identity was about to emerge it was hours after the bombing when the news channel first told you about the possibility that surveillance cameras may have captured the explosion and the killers on tape our sources and sources for the LA Times described what's actually on those tapes the information shows some huge surprises the biggest that it may have been John Doe number two not Timothy McVeigh who detonated the bomb Brad Edwards has the latest on the investigation and this exclusive news channel report our new information comes directly from a source that has seen parts of those surveillance tapes it also comes from reports now and for Los Angeles Times but perhaps the biggest surprise is contained in the news channels own information empathy McVeigh was not the last person to leave the Ryder truck in fact another man said inside the cab of the truck after McVeigh got out we believe that man is John Doe number two a man who for all we know is still on the loose leaving open a vital question was it John Doe number two who actually set off the bomb not Timothy McVeigh as we've all been led to believe newsChannel 4 has for weeks been demanding copies of the surveillance tapes from the FBI the federal government so far is dragging its feet but many people in the investigation have seen the tapes and now so has a source willing to describe to the newsChannel what the tapes show the LA Times report shows there was a surveillance camera near the corner of 5th and Harvey and another near the corner of 5th and Robinson federal investigators recreated the time sequence leading up to the bombing by matching the video and still photos from the surveillance cameras since we can't show you the tape ourselves were re-enacting what our source says he saw on those tapes as witnesses told the News Channel before the tape showed the Ryder truck parked in front of the Merle building where we now know the blast went off as witnesses also told us the tape showed two men sitting inside the Ryder truck a man strongly resembling Timothy McVeigh gets out of the driver's side steps down he then appears to have dropped something on the step up into the truck he bends down and appears to pick something up off the step then he turns and walks directly across Fifth Street with the journal record building all this time John Doe number two is still inside the writer truck's cab sitting on the passenger side time passes the surveillance tape is time-lapse photography without knowing exactly the time interval between shots our source can't be sure how long John Doe number two said in that cab what was he doing all that time then the tape shows John Doe number two getting out of the passenger side of the Ryder truck again the tape shows that a bombing witness accurately described what happened next to News Channel four mr. Bouie I was lookout fondle and I singing are drugs truck and I seen a man give out the letters truck the tape shows John Doe number two getting out shutting the passenger side door he steps toward the front of the truck and is momentarily out of the frame of the surveillance camera but shortly he appears back in frame walking toward the rear of the truck still on the sidewalk in front of the Murrah Building again he turns east toward the front of the truck looking toward the street John Doe number two then walks diagonally across this street for the east as if heading toward the YMCA or the intersection of 5th and Robinson he again leaves the frame of the camera another camera shooting from another angle clearly shows the actual explosion that destroyed the federal building and killed 169 people in any normal trial the footage of the defendant at the scene of the crime with the alleged murder weapon would be the centerpiece of the prosecution but this was no ordinary trial not only did the FBI never produce the surveillance footage in court they never released it at all despite multiple sworn affidavits showing that the tapes exist that they show John Doe number two and that the cameras were removed from the scene by the FBI on the day of the bombing they have still never been shown to the public after a year's long court case that continues to this very day the FBI claimed that they have searched their records for the tape but they just can't find it so why is the FBI so concerned about keeping this footage from the public it shows two things which could completely change our understanding of what happened on April 19th 1995 the first is the possibility that the Ryder truck bomb was not the only bomb at the Murrah Building that day the first bomb that was in the Federal Building did go off it did the damage that you see right there the second explosive was found and defused the third explosive that was found and they are working on right now as we speak I understand both the 2nd and 3rd explosives if you imagine this were larger than the first that they have found a second explosive device of some kind inside this building Justice Department is reporting that a second explosive device has been found one device was was deactivated apparently there's another device that in fact two different explosive devices were found in addition to the one that went off the second bomb was found on the east side of that building a bomb squad is on the scene Medical Teams downtown are unable to get into the wreckage to retrieve more of the injured because of the presence of other bombs in the area I just took a look down the street at the Morrow building again I see another bomb truck going so apparently they're going to try to get out that third bomb that's been talked about as a retired US Air Force Brigadier General been pardoned noted in an exhaustive report in the wake of the bombing the evidence is conclusive that the Ryder truck bomb could not have accounted for the damage done to the Murrah Building I went to a two-year graduate program a horrors of armament engineering Rogers first course that was ever set up and after that I were to the Blissey research laboratory at Aberdeen which is two years of hands-on work designing developing continuous auto warheads for the warrant whistle and other weapon systems well the truck bomb even though it was fairly massive was somewhat removed from some of the structures that were damaged he clearly had some what you call Bhushan's damage where the blast pressure was way above what you would expect to get from the truck at that distance Prasad's damage is that caused by an explosive whose blast wave is powerful enough to shatter and destroy the material affected the problem with the failed columns at the Murray building is at that distance the air blast from an ANFO bomb would have been ten times less powerful than what was needed to dissolve the concrete and cut the rebar those columns had they fail due to air blast should have broken with sharp chunks of concrete connected by rebar not sheared off at critical points Prasad's damage indicates contact explosives placed directly on the beams even more perplexing is the total collapse of column b3 which caused the floors on the east side to pancake onto one another the building was gutted to within feet of the other side column before closer to the truck bomb is completely intact yet we are supposed to believe that a blast wave traveled through before leaving the sheetrock almost untouched and completely destroyed the column farther away and most of the front columns were destroyed when the supporting header beam failed but the cause of failure supposedly being air-blast should have thrown it into the building instead it fell straight down and rolled towards the crater general Parton's report was conclusive the murrah Federal Building was not destroyed by one soul truck bomb the major factor in its destruction appears to have been detonation of explosives carefully placed at four critical junctures on supporting columns within the building many independent experts concurred with the partn report Sam Cohen inventor of the neutron bomb issued this statement I believe that the demolition charges in the building that were placed inside at certain key concrete columns did the primary damage to the murrah Federal Building it would have been absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a truck full of fertilizer and oil no matter how much was used to bring the building down the FBI put all their weight behind the lone bomber theory and tailor the evidence to fit that scenario dr. Frederic Whitehurst a supervisor at the FBI crime lab turned whistleblower over the bureau's handling of the evidence in the Oklahoma City bombing release report today condemning the FBI crime lab for mishandling evidence and for slanting its analysis the report is expected to specifically criticize the labs handling of the Oklahoma City and World Trade Center bombing cases it was the allegations of FBI whistleblower Frederick Whitehurst that sparked that investigation forced to resign dr. Whitehurst testified in Terry Nichols trial that a fellow FBI chemist had changed his findings and lied under oath after meeting with federal prosecutors the office of the inspector general or OIG investigated white his charges and issued a report which concluded that the FBI crime lab had improperly identified the characteristics of ANFO the weight of the bomb the detonation system and evil what kind of explosive was used but perhaps even more importantly the missing surveillance tapes from the Murrah Building threatened to reveal the identity of John Doe number two and as it turns out there is every reason to believe that the missing accomplice in the case is exactly as McVeigh himself alleged a government informant agent or operative documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act over the past decade have exposed a long classified FBI operation from the early 1990s this operation dubbed patcon for Patriot conspiracy involved FBI infiltration of the militia movement including the very circles that McVeigh himself model soldier and Special Forces recruit was now moving in attorney Jesse tren adieu has been one of the most outspoken voice about the patcon operation and how it relates to the events in Oklahoma City as I pursued this it over the last 16 years and and lots of lawsuits and fights with the FBI I stumbled across an operation that the FBI called patcon ta TCO in patcon was an acronym for Patriot conspiracy and the FBI began to distance itself from Pat Khan when I was probing and they said it was just a simple operation or they're going to infiltrate some militia folks in Alabama who had stolen some night-vision goggles from a military base and we're selling them but it was clear to me that pan-con was bigger than that much much bigger and they were patcon operations going on all over the country and there were they refer to as patcon group one patcon group two patcon group three pack meaning that's the FBI's name for their wide scale you say investigation and infiltration of the radical right in the early mid 1990s well it went fairly well throughout the 90s because here last summer I received a phone call from a fellow who said I been seeing what's been posted on the internet from your four-year lawsuits with the FBI now he said you have all the pieces but you just haven't put them together and I said what do you mean he said well you just don't see the pictures so he came to see me and I I directed him to Newsweek magazine and to um some other reporters he had been one of the top undercover operatives for the FBI and Pat cotton for almost ten years he had infiltrated some 23 groups he started out believing it was the right thing he wasn't you know so many of these informants are people were caught in the act of committing a crime and are forced to go undercover for the FBI he did it voluntarily because he thought these hate groups what the described him as hate groups were dangerous in hindsight he said he looked on it and he sees now that the the agenda the agenda was to infiltrate in incite of the militia movement the right-wing Christian movement the violence so that the department justice could crush him he said it Ruby Ridge was a petkin operation he said that Waco was a petkin operation he believed that Oklahoma City was but he wasn't involved in it but he did say that other members of the patcon group were involved in Oklahoma City at the center of the many threads of this operation was Elohim City a white supremacist compound in Oklahoma whose chief of security was the enigmatic Andreas trois Myer son of former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl's chief of staff and a former lieutenant in the German army with military intelligence training and we have another angle on this as well from Carol how are you familiar with her case she was actually hired by the ATF to infiltrate the compound in LOM City which was in eastern Oklahoma almost right on the Arkansas border and which she they gave her ordinance they gave her pipe bomb material everything to just find out if the people within Elam city were you know capable of actually doing something such as the Oklahoma City bombing and come to find out there was ATF and FBI informants that even know about so it was really an odd mix of informants are not communicating with each other catastrophic breakdown the communication okay Pam warnings to target specific targets addresses of targets names of targets I know too many people that were talking about that building talking about Oklahoma City talking about doing something on that date using a truck bomb in her report to the ATF in December how reveals that Strasse Meier planned to forcibly act to destroy the US government with assassinations mass shootings and bombings eight says you wanted to go blow up federal buildings I mean this point-blank that's what he said you'd like to be out there doing Jane Gramm an eyewitness it worked in the Murrah Building observed Strasse Meier in the building the week before the bombing going over blueprints and carrying what looked to be the components for c-4 explosives and detonators as alleged in David Hoffman's book the Oklahoma City bombing in the politics of terror Strauss Meyer first aroused suspicion that he was an undercover operative when he was caught in Texas entering a Federal Building at night with the keycode did he have access to the Murrah Building also when we interviewed Jane Graham it was a survivor she said that when she went to work it was either the day before or two days before I don't remember which she parked in the basement parking and when she got out of her car was walking across the parking garage she saw three guys down there wearing coveralls and placing hoodie on the columns and stringing wire between the putti later she picks out one of the guys from photographs and says that's him and it was Andrea stress Meyer Strauss Meyer was there listening going over the plans he was listening to everything he was what they were talking about looking at place pointing to things but when they were talking whatever they happen to finally be talking about and when I was looking at him at that point then he left and went over to the other side of the building so I wouldn't keep watching him the second man that was there who appeared to be military he's the one that the man in charge told put the stuff back in the car the second man obviously was taking orders from the first man because he had wire in his hands which I thought was telephone wire is that real light color thin wire and he also had what appeared to be gray putty well that's exactly how you string composition c4 with det cord despite all of this evidence Strasse Meyer was never interviewed by the FBI as part of their Oklahoma City investigation before he had the chance to flee the country and return to Germany this is just one of many examples of seeming foreknowledge of the attack that have since been covered up or suppressed by the FBI and the ATF the government has claimed that they had absolutely no prior warning and yet we start off with the interesting little episode where two Air Force bombed squad guys and these are very special Air Force bomb squad guys that we know were cleared to work for presidential security VIP security and so on they were ordered from Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico to Oklahoma City on arriving on Monday the 17th of April two days before the bombing their orders were to go to a motel and wait there until contacted by the FBI I had become aware of this information in 1997 developed some confirming information but the key was that in the summer of 2001 two journalists had separate conversations with one of the individuals were the two individuals on this bomb squad team he admitted he was there when asks in separate conversations by both journalists why he was there he responded you'll have to ask the FBI there was this fairly large truck with a trailer behind it and it had a shield on the side of the door and it said bomb disposal or bomb squad blow it authorities now claim in federal investigative reports that the huge ominous truck with its trailer was being used by a deputy to run routine errands of the documents obtained by 2020 show that someone called the executive secretary its office at the Justice Department in Washington and said the morale building had been bombed but this was 24 minutes before the blast no action was apparently taken yet another witness a rescue worker says after she talked with an agent at the bombing scene she also suspected Jeff was warned an agent stayed away from their office that morning I asked him if his office was in the building and he said yes and I asked if there were any ATF agents that were still in the building and he said no we weren't here witness number one approached an ATF agent nearby he claims he asked the agent what had happened and witness number one says this is what the agent told him he started getting a little bit nervous he tried reaching somebody on a two-way radio and I couldn't get anybody and I told him I wanted an answer right then he said they were in the briefing the agents had been there they had been tipped by their pagers not to come into work that day plain as day out of his mouth they were tipped why wasn't anybody else any one of these indications of foreknowledge of the blast would be incredible enough taken together they provide corroboration of the thesis that the government in fact had informants in the plot and were allowing it to go ahead but more startling by far than all of these accusations is the case of dipole might dipole might was an ATF project to familiarize be ATF agents with truck bomb debris patterns and to calibrate the effect of vehicular explosions on a variety of materials and structures beginning in 1994 the bureau conducted a series of experiments at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico blowing up vehicles with c4 and ANFO explosives and analyzing the blasts to gauge the effect of terrorist bombings on government buildings even more incredible pictures emerged in 1997 of a Ryder truck parked at Camp Gruber training center in Oklahoma the source of the image who feared for his safety and requested anonymity asserted that the images were taken in early April of 1995 just two weeks before the bombing the National Guard did eventually confirm that the images were authentic and that the Ryder trucks presence at the camp was related to a weapons sensor project connected with the Defense Advanced Research Project agency but issued a statement insisting that this Ryder truck and the weapons project it was associated with quote had no association whatsoever with the tragedy at the Alfred P Murrah Building and quote could this be the other Ryder truck that witnesses reported seeing at Lake Geary several days before Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols arrived to construct their bomb the official narrative dictates the Tim McVeigh alone rented the Ryder truck in Junction City Kansas on April 17 two days before the bombing the Interior Nichols supposedly constructed the bomb on April 18 but the bulk of eyewitness accounts assert that the Ryder truck was a Gary Lake for several days before that I retired April 11th 1995 and after finishing up that morning I decided to stop by hearing fish at URI State Lake which is right in this general area here that I was fishing from the pier or jetty and I stayed here most of the afternoon fishing of course with no luck and later on that afternoon I had decided to maybe go back over this way over here to the other point by Karen see if I'd have him luck when I I noticed a Ryder truck over there I was sitting at home one day and my wife came in from work and she said that she had been stopped at a roadblock up here Gary Lake in reference to the Oklahoma City bombing and the making of the bomb here a Giri state lake and with a Ryder truck and I said well you know I had told you about the Ryder truck I had seen there before this and that's how I became aware of it and then the next thing I knew she told the ATF and FBI the people to roadblock that what I had seen and and before I knew it my house was swarming with agents multiple trucks multiple bombs government informants prior warnings patcon John Doe number two aundrea Strasse Myer the indications of government participation and coverup in the bombing itself continue to mount and mount and they paint a very different picture of McVeigh than that of the lone wolf bomber that the government and media have spent 20 years asking us to believe in but why if there was government complicity in the plot to blow up the Murrah Building why would this be so what would the government stand to gain from this firstly patcon gained its objective of discrediting militias gun rights groups and those concerned about governmental overreach once and for all in the mind of the American public the United States of America they believe that the United States government is prepared to usurp the Constitution and break down doors and confiscate guns am i lying to these people Bob Fletcher and Jim Trackman John dropper John sorry it says John here you believe this no not quite like that not the US government which government the one-world government yes sir you the United Nations yes sir and you're in the woods now and you're not neither of you you're not in the woods oh no no yeah you're from Montana the city of Noxon yes sir the little town of Knox on 350 people maximum aha and you're living in the woods no no you're not is anybody in Montana if they're playing homes you're sitting next to ray south well who does from Michigan you're live you you you gather in the woods don't you in Michigan when we train yeah that's correct but you're not living there I don't quite understand when you say living there I live in northern Michigan and I have 20 acres that I live on and there's a house there right secondly an ATF that had suffered a severe backlash from its mishandling of events at Ruby Ridge in Waco could win public support and sympathy by parading as the victim of anti-government crazies thirdly it provided new life to the Omnibus counterterrorism Act of 1995 a controversial bill introduced by Joe Biden two months before the bombing that would have given police broad new powers to use secret sources and secret evidence in terrorism proceedings widely denounced as an affront to civil liberties the bill was languishing in committee but all that changed on April 19th 1995 the very day after the blast at the Murrah Building the New York Times wrote about the bill that after the Oklahoma City bombing there were few surer legislative bets in Washington the legislation morphed into the anti-terrorism and effective death penalty Act of 1996 and was passed the next year with President Clinton specifically linking the bill to the bombing in his signing statement years later Biden claimed that his original bill was the core of what eventually became the Patriot Act fourthly the bombing also conveniently destroyed a number of documents that were proving to be problematic for the Clinton administration documents that had all somehow or other ended up being housed at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City in April of 1995 day one hour two of the bombing the most significant event that happened is when they said they found other bombs in the building the second most significant event was the way moved everybody back and held him back there were still people alive trapped in the building but they came in with two trucks and backed him up to the Murrah Building and a bunch of these uh guys dressed in blue jackets with no letters on the back started taking boxes of files out and put them on his truck we were told by a blonde female agent that there were files so was so serious the government that into those files we located it would not be any recovery effort she remember the Whitewater investigation in Arkansas although the paperwork was stored in the Murrah Building they had FBI just over in the fields the west of the Murrah Building picking up paper almost all day long and it was during this time that early and investigation that I started receiving some various phone calls one of them was a phone call from Little Rock Arkansas the guy said that he was a federal agent he was not an FBI agent he was not ATF but what he did say was during their investigation of the Clintons on the drug-running that went through Mena Arkansas and you know Lassiter's ranch and all of that stuff that was going on at the time during iran-contra that those records when when Clinton went to Washington were transferred from there to the Murrah Building but what about McVeigh what was his role in all of this criminal mastermind convenient patsy unwitting dupe or sheepdip to operative exactly as he claimed to be it's at this point that most such investigations would end with the narrator metaphorically shrugging his shoulders and suggesting that the secrets of the bombing might have gone to the grave with McVeigh himself but this is not such a story in fact there are reasons to believe that McVeigh never actually went to the grave at all he told us many times he was absolutely on this issue from time to time but his main theme was that he was not going to be executed that the major was going to have someone in Silla trait the execution team and that he would be given drugs that would say in the appearance of death but and he says the CIA and other people use these drugs and that they would think they would be taken out and they would be brought you know given some type of medication that would counteract the other and that he would be rewarded for serving his country and you know it tells us sounds a little bit far-fetched but I mean I've talked to several people who witnessed the execution including Jani Coverdell and he doesn't he doesn't know one way or another whether Tim was executed he was covered up from from Total Connect and he couldn't see any any type of IV lines or anything running into his veins and so she clearly says that she doesn't know if he was executed or not and she watched him so um you know I don't know if Emily guys did McVeigh spent much of his time on death row fighting for a very unusual request to not have an autopsy performed on his body after his execution autopsies are standard procedures after federal executions and would have been performed on McVeigh but his request was granted and no autopsy was ever performed during the execution itself one of the eyewitnesses Susan Carlson of wls a.m. radio reported McVeigh quote appeared to be still breathing or what appeared to be shallow breathing even after being pronounced dead and his eyes remained open end quote after the execution prison officials admitted to using a decoy to throw the public off the trail of McVeigh who was ostensibly transported to a local funeral home and cremated before his ashes were turned over to his attorneys perhaps it's appropriate in a sick way that we don't even have closure on this the one part of the OKC bombing story that even the most jealous of long believed was unquestionable after all the only constant in the case is that at every turn the government has lied about what they know withheld evidence and otherwise kept the public in the dark about what really happened that day meanwhile those brave few who have sought to shed light on these issues were just gotten caught up in the story have ended up with their lives transformed the reputation shattered and in some cases have lost their lives all in maintenance of this mystery anti-government extremist one man in the contaminated Timothy McVeigh's McVeigh Timothy McVeigh Timothy McVeigh Timothy McVeigh McVeigh cafe McVeigh as collapse can fallen away from the rest of the building at the moment The Colbert Report is brought to you by you your 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You know not everybody is equipped to or interested in engaging in high-level discussion of abstract and creative ideas you know you hear this idea that everyone's creative that's a lie it's as straightforward as that drew creativity is very very rare and so and if you happen to be a creative person or if you happen to be someone who's profoundly interested in ideas you are in a pronounced minority just as you are if you happen to be extremely extroverted or extremely agreeable or extremely conscientious these are minority issues and what you do is you find like-minded people who are capable of engaging that we know a heavy weight weight heavy weight weight lifters compete with heavy weight weight lifters for a reason and everyone thinks that's fine the same thing applies to intellectual and creative endeavors so what you do is you try to find a community where that's that's the nature of the community and you likely have to find a relationship like that as well you know so I don't think so I think what contributes to the siloing is the arrogance that goes along with it because if you're you can be interested in ideas and you can be creative well that's the arrogance of the intellect right that's the thing the Catholic Church had warned about for centuries is the arrogance of the intellect so because if you're if you're wise as well as smart and there is no relationship between being smart and being wise they are not the same thing there's no quick pathway from smart to wise and many of the people who I've known who were very wise were when some of them were intellectually impaired and were skill wise you know so it's the arrogance that brings up the block and I see this for example happening in the United States in particular because the last time I went down there for example I was I had friends down there and and some of those friends are very very smart people and some of them were talking about the Trump voters and they were talking about the Trump voters with contempt and I thought you better watch that because that's 50% of the damn population and it might be convenient to think that they're stupid and beneath you but it's not conducive to a civil state and there's no evidence that it's true because there isn't a straight line between Intel and wise and so I think that if your if your character is developed and you're intelligent you can have your siloed creative community but you develop enough wisdom so that you can see all the things that people can do that are of high ethical utility that are outside the intellectual domain you know and I think that's why in the New Testament I think that's why Christ is a carpenter right because well first of all carpenter is one of those jobs that when you're dishonest it manifests itself immediately because what you build falls down and so if you're an honest carpenter you build a good house so that there's a nice metaphor there but it's also it's also a warning in some sense against the the equation of intellectual brilliance with moral superiority and so if the intellects would drop their moral superiority and fat chance there is of that then that divide between the working class say and the elite would would resolve and there's every reason to have respect for decent working class people I mean it's on their labor as the left-wingers at least hypothetically agree that the entire edifice of the culture is is resting so you can have your cake and eat it too but you have to not assume that your niche makes you superior and it's very difficult for smart people especially smart there's a scene in Nietzsche's it seems thus spake Zarathustra we're 0th Easter the Prophet comes down from the mountain and he comes into a public square and there's this crowd around this little midget who's only about this high who has a gigantic ear and everyone is marveling at him well that's what the modern intellect is like it's a midget with a giant full mouth generally not an ear and the the being is underdeveloped but the intellect is hyper activated and and it makes the person extraordinarily unbalanced and as part of cuz they they can't compete outside the intellectual realm and that makes them very bitter because they tend to think I'm so smart everything should just come to me it's like sorry that's not how the world works and and it also that that and that that that attitude is immediately evident to people that they're talking to when they talk in the manner that they talk if they are arrogant intellectuals of that sort you see that and the Simpsons did a good job of that with Comic Book Guy right I mean he was completely useless in every possible dimension with an IQ of about 160 and it's very annoying to people who have an IQ of 160 that they can also be completely useless but it happens a lot so yeah [Applause]

This week's lazy Sunday upload is going to be a little different i've been a china watcher for years ever since reports of ghost cities started to emerge almost ten years ago i think china is probably the biggest bubble economy in history and i'm not the only one Jim Chanos and Carl bass are both very successful and renowned short sellers and although they come at the Chinese economy from different angles they reach very similar conclusions the following is cut from a panel at last year's Vanity Fair new establishment summit on the global economy and stock markets the full session runs just over half an hour and is well worth a listen especially if you're interested in the art of short selling which I personally find fascinating so with that out of the way please enjoy Jim Chanos and cold baths talking about the Chinese bubble economy I want to start with the topic that's of major importance for the global economy and that's China let's begin with a question for the audience how many of you are optimistic about China's economy can we see a show of hands interesting so surprise our two guests are not optimistic about China and haven't been for quite some time Jim you've got a great story about what piqued your interest in China will you share it well I mean we got interested in China were stock pickers and we're not so called macro investors and our interests in China came about in the fall of o.9 when we were trying to figure out why it was that some of the commodity producers were reporting record profits into the teeth of the global financial crisis and we knew it inherently it was due to China and we're talking about iron ore company steel companies aluminum cement copper and my real estate analyst was putting some figures on the board and said currently China has under development 5.6 billion square meters of high-rises roughly half residential and half office and mixed-use and I said he was a young man I said well Alex you're getting your nominal HR wrong because we think in square feet and their square meters it can't be 5.6 billion square feet they're meters that's 60 billion square feet and he looked at me it's only sort of a terrified young analyst good he said I triple-checked it it's 5.6 billion square meters and it sort of hit me that if half of that was office space roughly 30 billion square feet that was a five foot by five foot office cubicle for every man woman and child in China and that's been built over twice now since 2010 and it really rammed home to me the scope of the urban build-out that was occurring in a very short period of time in China and just how much debt was being taken on to do it and and what a basically one-off for the world economy this is turning out to be and we still believe that so back in 2011 another prominent Wall Street are dismissed you by saying shorting China is basically starting the march of history and even today people say that you're wrong because China's official growth figures have been strong and are projected to continue to be strong what do you make of those arguments well I always point out first it's a communist totalitarian state so the figures are gonna be what they want you believe more importantly though even with that when we started looking at China China's nominal GDP rate was about 16 17 % and that's the important one for paying off their internal debt and it's now about 8% if actually ticked up from 6 because they've gone back to slightly inflation versus deflation so their nominal growth rates been cut in half in the last 5 years their markets have gone nowhere they'll be it with a lot of volatility but more interestingly we've been involved in sort of the first derivatives of China Macau iron ore companies cement companies shipping companies and they've been just absolutely terrific on the short side so in a general global bull market one of the few places you've been able to hide it's been in the China play Kyle you went public with your views on China a year ago and for you it's all about the banking system you have a great chart can we show it and can you help explain it sure this chart is a subset of what's most relevant the banking system to to the crowd what's important to understand what what Jim just said is is absolutely it's earth-shattering we're given given the build-out in both commercial and residential insistence oh we studied the banking system in the US Europe Japan and China and that's where I think our expertise is but when you look at their banking system they have an economy today of about 12 trillion dollars in GDP they have 37 trillion dollars worth of banking assets save 330 percent of their GDP in their banks to put it into context the u.s. going into the financial crisis was about a hundred and seventy percent of GDP including the non banks the fetty's the Freddie's the Fanning's and all the non-bank deposit or non depository institutions this chart here is a subset of that banking system and what's in what's relevant here if you remember the asset liability mismatches those vehicles that called structured investment vehicles or a BCP conduits those kinds of things where the liability side rolls very quickly but the assets inside are like seven ten thirty or assets so these are asset liability mismatched products in the banking system at our worst we were two-and-a-half percent of our system in asset liability mismatches and things that really brought the acuity of the crisis to the banks right away in China there's four and a half trillion dollars worth of asset liability mismatches today as per Chinese bank annual reports and that is almost four times as bad as the US was and so the point I'm trying to make is with the slide is in in kind of the worst possible kind of assets it's four times worse than we were at our peak in 2006 so for those that believe somehow China with a declining working age population in a banking system that's been recklessly built if we think China is going to grow six and a half percent from now on or eight percent nominally I just think that that they're wrong and I think that if you follow what's happening right now sometime in the next 18 months you're going to see a real banking crisis in China even even though they are a communist totalitarian government economic gravity takes over well to amplify on Kyle's point what you have know is you still banking system that is growing assets at two to three times depending on how big the shadow banking system is of nominal GDP so we think banking and shadow banking assets will grow somewhere around 20 percent this year put that in perspective that as he points out that will be new debt to the tune of six seven trillion US dollars in a ten eleven trillion dollar twelve trillion dollar economy and I would dare say that if the u.s. did a similar type stimulus say 10 trillion and new debt on a 17 trillion dollar economy we'd be growing at 6% – there's no magic to this I mean they're literally almost half of the economy's construction still after all these years it's still investment and so of course the problem becomes every time you finish a building you reset to zero you've got to start a building a building and this is the inherent problem and it's by the way very similar to something Kyle knows better than I do it's very similar to the Japanese model in late 80s except this was on steroids there's a big difference cell and molecular will let you start a big difference between China and Japan is China doesn't have any international assets right the Chinese people in general only have about 20% of their GDP invested externally so which China has this impossible trilemma they want to try to hold their exchange rate on constant they want to liberalize their capital counter to open their economy and yet they can't do those things all at the same time because it will decimate their currency so they made a lot of money by basically exporting cheap labor or cheap Labor's benefits to the rest of the world but if the Chinese are allowed to travel some more and buy some foreign assets it basically means it's just China's going to need to readjust that's not the end of the world this isn't a Lehman moment it's a moment that those are allocating money to Southeast Asia need to be really wary of in the next two years so just as with Jim a lot of people think that you are dead wrong you noted earlier this year that you've had numerous discussions with various Wall Street firms consultants other respected China experts and they almost all think you're wrong does this bother you when most people think that your own I know Jim Jim yes it bothers me play but I love to tell an anecdote so I'll leave the person's name out of the other conversation but last week the chief economist and one of the biggest investment banks in China came to see me and she had written a rebuttal to something that I wrote in February basically saying that the Chinese foreign exchange reserves aren't exactly what they're reporting and I went through a very detailed analysis using all the facts provided by China's two statistical services showing how the number didn't reconcile and she said well it haiman doesn't know what they're talking about Kyla's and he's talking about that the the sovereign wealth assets for the sovereign wealth fund are not included in the FX reserves and so I put a I put the sheet of paper in front of her that showed ten years actually for 20 years of this data series and I said well if it had been subtracted you'd see a step function change in the PBOC data series and she said well reporting out better in 2010 you just have to believe me you know and I think this this belief and I call it this apostolic belief in China's Chinese government's omnipotence is what everybody tends to believe in yeah right and if you just look at the facts right you wouldn't invest in China today and that that's the point that I make so all the arguments that I try to make are fact-based and not yea just believe in the in the in the government and I think that's a lot of what Jim does what I do and unfortunately it's a lonely place right you know what what's wrong with trust me what's wrong with apostolic belief in omnipotence oh it sounds very reassuring to me it does it it can be more profitable for a while but ultimately reality does tend to hold and you know look I'm being used to be called wrong I was married for 20 years so you know that's something that's something that Jim you get used to pretty pretty easily but but again the data the data is is telling us that something is unprecedented happening in this country and I think that that for those that believe in in the omnipotence of the Chinese Communist Party I would just simply point to 2015 as as the summer of 2015 when the government which had promoted the stock market and told people to go buy stocks on leverage in late 14 early 15 suddenly realized they had a problem on their hands and tried to put it in reverse and caused the crash and then just put out a series of just mind-numbing conflicting directives and orders to the financial markets and if anyone really thinks that this group of seven guys in a room has the markets figured out it has financial plumbing figured out they didn't it was very clear and so I think that you only need point to a little over a year ago to see the response in what was basically a stock market crisis